To Take down or suffer

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To Take down or suffer the slings, arrows and IEDs..
By Gerald Internet Anthropologist Think Tank

The paradigm on terrorist web sites is currently up side down.
The question revolves around leaving the sites up for intel collection
or taking them down blocking recruitment. Our analysis follows.
HERE IS THE DISCUSSION. G

The Internet has played a key role in radicalizing a number of key players in alleged terror plots this year. From Fort Hood accused shooter Nidal Hasan to the five young Americans detained in Pakistan this month allegedly en route to fight U.S. forces in Afghanistan, authorities claim the suspects needed no face-to-face contact with jihadist recruiters. Instead, the Internet is serving as an electronic funnel for extremists to infuse U.S.-based Muslims with a justification for jihad.

On one side are military theorists such as John Arquilla of the Naval Post Graduate School in Monterey, California, who believe that driving militant Islamists off the web would destroy their ability to carry out jihad. But scholars such as Chris Boucek, of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, maintain that defeating online jihad won't happen by shutting down websites — they say the best antidote to jihadist websites is countering their arguments for killing with better-reasoned Islamic logic.

"Instead of thinking of cyberspace principally as a place to gather intelligence, we need to elevate it to the status of 'battlespace,'"

"This means that we either want to exploit terrorists' use of the Web and Net unbeknownst to them, or we want to drive them from it." Arquilla tells TIME that al-Qaeda doesn't "put people on planes anymore because they know we're good at spotting them, and if we take away cyberspace we would achieve a crippling effect on the global terror network."

But Arquilla's logic doesn't add up, counters Evan Kohlmann of the non-profit NEFA Foundation, created following 9/11 to track Islamic terrorism. Shutting down jihadist web sites "would be like firing cruise missiles at our own spy satellites," he argues, referring to the intelligence the U.S. and its allies glean from such sites.

"If you shut down one of their websites today, they have a complete copy elsewhere and can put it up on a new server and have it up tomorrow," Kohlmann says. Such websites are the only window the rest of the world has into al-Qaeda and other such groups. "If you start shutting down the websites," he adds, "it's like chopping up a jellyfish — you end up with lots of little pieces that are very difficult to monitor." Kohlmann believes that the websites are a treasure trove of valuable intelligence, most of which is being overlooked by the U.S

instead of trying to blow up al-Qaeda's websites, it may make more sense to battle their ideology online with better arguments. "We're talking about a movement that's based on ideas and grievances, so we need to understand those ideas and grievances," Boucek says. "Failing to engage in debate on those issues means we're ceding all of that to them, and that makes no sense to me."
in reference to:

"instead of trying to blow up al-Qaeda's websites, it may make more sense to battle their ideology online with better arguments. "We're talking about a movement that's based on ideas and grievances, so we need to understand those ideas and grievances," Boucek says. "Failing to engage in debate on those issues means we're ceding all of that to them, and that makes no sense to me.""
- Should the U.S. Destroy Jihadist Websites? - TIME (view on Google Sidewiki)

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Both sides can be accommodated.
Before the Internet terrorist could not recruit like they do now,
or spread their lies so far and wide.
There are a few key terrorist sites that if
taken down would make a very serious dent in their recruiting.

( List at end of post.G )

And there is a need to present the truth to the terorist lies.
But you can't do it on most terrorist sites, they limit there
membership, so if you are not a member you can't post.
And the few that are open if you do post counter propaganda
truthful informatoin you get banned and your posts deleted.
We've been ther done that, G.

Now about the part of the sites poping back up,
it just isn't that easy, if your a web master you know
the work and love you pour into your site,
And one cannot just "pop it back up".

You start over and your readers won't know your
new URL, SO EVERY TIME YOUR TAKEN DOWN
YOU LOOSE READERS.

And its a real pain in the ass, not to mention waste
of hours of work to try and reconstuite a downed
web site. Its just drudge work...
And while they are spending hours and hours putting
the site back up, "they" aren't doing other things.

But there does need to be a huge effort to counter
the Terrorist lies on the web. And right now that
water is being carried by the civilians.

Yes take down the terrorist web sites, and also
promote anti-propaganda at a key Islamic portal
site yet to be created.


And taking out the Jadie sites helps in the SysAdmin programs, as it would cut out alot of the propaganda lies.


Taking out Jahiddie and terrorist sites is a big
move towards preventing the bastardization of Islam
for the Terrorist twisted cult of al Qaeda.

The goal here should be to shut down recruiting,
not collecting Intel.

Intel collection paradigm:
The more sites you have the more Intel to be collected.
And the more recruiting and members they get.
This paradigm increases terrorist growth.

Shutting down sites prevents recruiting,
decreasing terrorist growth.

Evan Kohlmann seems to be presenting the Intelligence communitys view of the Paradigm to track the wana be terrorists, but there is needed a balance between tracking the recruiting and stopping the recruiting.

Evan Kohlmann Link  of the non-profit NEFA Foundation, created following 9/11 to track Islamic terrorism. Shutting down jihadist web sites "would be like firing cruise missiles at our own spy satellites," he argues, referring to the intelligence the U.S. and its allies glean from such sites. ( BUT THE SPY SATELLITES DON'T SPAWN TERRORIST, IF THEY DID, WE WOULD SHOOT THEM DOWN, NOT JUST TRACK THE NEW TERRORIST THEY CREATED. G )

Evan goes on: "Besides, it can't be done. "If you shut down one of their websites today, they have a complete copy elsewhere and can put it up on a new server and have it up tomorrow,", Not true, I suspect Evan has never been a webmaster, or  tried to recreate a website, or loose surfers from a change of URL. The difficulties are myriad, it pisses off the webmasters and hurts moral. OH the PAIN.

View from the OTHER: Usually it takes 4 days to put up a new site, but to what end, it just gets taken down again, futile, FRUSTRATING time wasting activity.

 Evan says "If you start shutting down the websites," he adds, "it's like chopping up a jellyfish — you end up with lots of little pieces that are very difficult to monitor." I disagree with him here, its more like cutting off an arm, then a leg, fewer followers, the sites get smaller and smaller with each reincarnation.

Misses the point: And this, of course, does not even take into account the myriad of freedom of speech and civil liberty issues that would inevitably arise if the U.S. government was to start blacking out independent websites on the basis of content. And what about YouTube, which allegedly has served as the point of contact for Taliban recruiters looking for American volunteers -- are we planning on shutting them down, too?

Well we do have a paradigm for this, Kiddie Porn, has no freedom of speech and civil liberty issues and neither should terrorist sites. And YOUtube is able to remove all the boobies from YOUTUBE but the fail at terrorism videos?

It feels like the Intelligence collection guys are running things at YOUTUBE.  (Terrorist friendly

site, YouTube, STARCMC’S ENEMEDIA)

Someone needs to decide, what they want: "to track and discover the new rectuits" or "shut down the new recruiting"?

Gerald
Internet Anthropologist

Key Sites to take down:
SNIPPET: "The most popular Salafi-jihadi forums are Al-Faluja, Shabakat Ansar Al-Mujahideen, Shabakat Al-Tahadi Al-Islamiyya, Shumukh Al-Islam, Shabakat Hanein, Shabakat Al-Mujahideen Al-Electroniyya, Mutadayat Al-Boraq Al-Islamiyya, and Ma'arik Islamic Network. Of these forums and websites, five are hosted by Western hosting companies."

SNIPPET: "Shabakat Ansar Al-Mujahideen has seven domains associated with it; two of these (www.as-ansar.org/vb and http://www.as-ansar.com/vb ) are hosted by Bluehost Inc. (1958 South 950 East, Provo, UT, USA), four (www.ansar1.net , http://ansarnet.info, www.de.ansarnet.info, www.de.ansar1.net ) by Colo4Dallas LP (3000 Irving Blvd, Dallas, TX, USA), and one (www.de.ansarnet.net ) by Oversee.net (515 S. Flower St, Suite 4400, Los Angeles, CA, USA)."

SNIPPET: "Shabakat Al-Tahadi Al-Islamiyya also has seven domains associated with it. One domain (www.atahadi.com/vb ) is hosted by Limestone Networks, Inc (400 N. St. Paul, Dallas, TX, USA), three (http://atahadi.r8.org , http://atahadi.0vr.net, http://atahadi.ne1.net ) by ServInt Engineering (6861 Elm Street, 4th Floor, McLean, VA, USA), two (http://atahadi.tr.cx, http://www.atahadi.tk ) by RIPE Network Coordination Centre (P.O. Box 10096, Amsterdam, NL), and one (http://atahadi.ubb.cc ) by XA-MEDIA-2-NET, XA-Media (XA-Media, Austria, Laxin IT-Services GmbH & Co. KG, 60314 Frankfurt am Main, Germany)."

SNIPPET: "Shabakat Hanein operates with only one domain (www.hanein.info/vb ), which is hosted by RIPE Network Coordination Centre (P.O. Box 10096, Amsterdam, NL)."

SNIPPET: "Shabakat Al-Mujahideen Al-Electroniyya has seven domains associated with it; six of these (http://majahden.com/vb/ , www.majahden.info , www.majahdenar.com , www.majahden1.com , www.mojahden.net , http://69.162.81.115/~majahden/vb ) are hosted by Limestone Networks, Inc. (400 N. St. Paul, Dallas, TX, USA) and one (http://majahden.ubb.cc ) is hosted by XA-MEDIA-2-NET (Network Operation Center-Hanauer Landstrasse 316A, 60314 Frankfurt am Main, Germany)."

SNIPPET: "The cluster of forums linked to Muntadayat Al-Boraq Al-Islamiyya has four domains associated with it (http://www.alboraq.info, http://rjfront.info/, http://alboraqmedia.org, http://iaisite.org ); all are hosted by RIPE Network Coordination Centre (P.O. Box 10096, Amsterdam, NL)."

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